ICYMI: @ZacLambert came across Pioneer Woman Jerry Sloan in the hallway of his church:
For some of us, while the lockout dragged on we were either removed enough from that sickening feeling resulting from losses or so desperate for the lockout to end that it was easy to get on baoard with on the "screw winning, develop the young players" movement. Now that we're a third of the way through the season (and ridiculously voting for All-Stars six weeks into the season, but I digress) and experiencing the joys of winning and the AAAARRRGGHHH! of losing on an almost nightly basis, has your stance in the Win Now vs. Develop Players debate changed? Is there a happy medium to be found here, or would committing to neither result in neither getting accomplished?
You probably remember when Twitter was starting to go mainstream (which was way, way after our own TazzJazzFan signed up), the media asked Jerry Sloan about it and he said that he didn't even know how to turn on a computer.
At the time, they also asked Jazz players about Twitter. As both have since become Twitter users, Jarron Collins and Matt Harpring's attempts to explain what Twitter was and their opinions of people that use Twitter are now pretty funny.
Jamaal Tinsley's play last night was one of my favorite performances by a Jazzman this season so far. You really just can't help but root for the guy the way he's been rooting for his teammates all year. It didn't amount to anything, but check out this move when he dribbled between the legs of David Lee:
0 recs | 32 comments
Regarding Point 2
In my opinion the Jazz were “winning” or at least doing better when they were getting a stronger rotation (more minutes by the bench guys). I haven’t tracked it statistically, but I would guess that Favors and Kanter’s minutes have gone down as of late. Clearly Milsap and Jefferson are a couple of our most consistent and key players (see volatility rankings), but we need to keep them fresh if we are going to win on the road. This is even more essential in a shortened season. I just think the coaches have gotten away from that. So, currently, I don’t think they are “winning now” or “developing their younger players.” I think the best equation is to have a balance.
By balance, I mean that we give our younger guys more minutes that we have been giving them, but not necessarily starting them and having them take the majority of minutes (complete development strategy).
Goof - February 3, 2012
Actually Favors and Kanter's over the last few games have been right with their season averages
Last night they really struggled in the 3rd and early 4th when they came in so they got yanked quicker to for the Jazz to try to make a run to get back into the game, but when the starters couldn’t get us back in it, they came back in to close it out.
I think the thing that gets overlooked when we are crying about playing time is that Hayward is playing 28 minutes at 21 years old. Over the last 5 games he is averaing 32 minutes. Corbin is also giving all of the young 4 double digit minutes a game on average. I would like to see them more because I would love to see what they can do with more time, but I get frustrated with how out of control they can get. So I think Corbin is smarter than me with playing time and I will trust him.
BobbyD31 - February 3, 2012
Fun DB, Moni.
1: DUDE. I did miss that.
2: All I know is that when we’re losing and have Harris, Jefferson, Raja, & Millsap in, I lose interest in the span of 3 seconds. When we’re losing and our young guys (plus Watson & Tinsley) are in, I enjoy watching anyway.
4: Love Tinsley’s style. Have been wanting him to get more minutes since the start of the season.
SurlyMae - February 3, 2012
Rec'd for #2
Rog. - February 3, 2012
I liked watching Tinsley play last night. I think he had a Jazz player season high in assists. We all have been clamoring for a pass first pg. he also hit some shots. If things don’t get back on track before the deadline I say trade Harris for Picks or cash he’s never going to be the guy we want. I also liked seeing Burkes run the point he needs to slow down and get control.
neds - February 3, 2012
I’m leaning toward giving the keys to the offense to Watson and Tinsley and trading Harris too. Burks might eventually turn into a point guard, but I’m not sure he has great vision. I see him in the style of Harris as a PG, but I think he could turn into a great SG.
JazzinLA - February 3, 2012
Burks @ PG
Didn’t see the games but from the box score, didn’t seem like Burks played PG even when two of our PGs were out. So I don’t think Coaches agree with you.
Soupe - February 3, 2012
I am always supportive of
winning games. If we look long term, the best chance to win the most games over the next 1-6 years is to bring the young guys along with solid consistent minutes. So far I have been mostly pleased with the minutes and more so without Raja. Jazz fans have to realize that the Jazz can’t resign everyone and one day they will be without Millsap or Jefferson. Thus the young guys need some preparation for that day. I can never root against the Jazz but after they lose, I console myself with images of two lottery picks in a very deep draft going to an already promising you Jazz group.
jusorenson - February 3, 2012
Great way to view it
When it comes down to it, the result of this season is a win-win. If they make the playoffs, it’ll be great experience for a young team. If they don’t, that’s fine too—bring on the lottery pick.. Both outcomes help the Jazz’s already bright future, in my opinion. And from what I’ve seen and have read, this team will fight until the end. That’s all you could really ask for.
allen aoki - February 3, 2012
Yup.
Effort is all I require. I want them to try their hardest to win, and I want to see them win. When they lose it hurts a little, but I get over it with dreams of 2 draft picks (especially when we lose to GS).
That said I really dislike losing efforts behind not enough minutes from the youth. If we lose behind Raja getting 30+ minutes, and Burks getting a DNP it is sort of like being punched twice.
hamfist - February 3, 2012
That's a great way to look at things.
JazzHype - February 3, 2012
this!
Is what i’ve been doing
TBKIII - February 3, 2012 via mobile
#2
the issue is that if you have high DPs and draft the right guys — and you play them the right mins — then you can develop the young guys WHILE STILL WINNING.
obviously a dude like burks is going to be on the CJ Miles “rookie for 5 years” development plan if he can’t get minutes, ever. but if he was getting 20 a night every night it would speed up his ability to help us win games.
Losing sucks. losing while seeing guys who aren’t in the long term plans of the jazz getting big minutes sucks even more.
AllThatJazzBasketball - February 3, 2012
Losing to the Warriors
and improving our chances in the upcoming draft TWICE sucks slightly less…
I’m still in the “let’s be competitive but not make the playoffs” camp, so we don’t have to give our pick to Minnesota. And of course, we need GS to be the 8th worst team in the NBA so we get their pick as well…
JasonInPG - February 3, 2012
My daydream scenario
We make a hard push to get to the playoffs and finish with a winning record but still come up just short in the deep west. Meanwhile the Warriors tank it at the end of the season and manage to move down to 7th place and preserve their pick. Against all odds we move up in the lottery to a top 3 pick(I won’t be greedy and say #1) thereby moving the Warriors down to #8 and take their pick as well.
Shiner Bock - February 3, 2012
Recd
Kamshunugi - February 3, 2012
Unrealistic but awesome fantasy scenarios FTW!
JasonInPG - February 3, 2012
I left out the last piece of it
where I win a big powerball lottery.
Shiner Bock - February 3, 2012
I'm pretty confident that Burks will be a big part of the Jazz's future
Even if his minutes this season don’t reflect that. I wouldn’t sweat his usage this year. The fans see something potentially special in the guy, and the coaches do too. I’m fine with the way he’s being handled this shortened season.
Fact is, he’s a 20-year old rookie with capable veterans in front of him. And it’s not like he’s not getting any minutes. 11 mpg is fine with how this team is constructed, and as the season goes along he should stand to get more.
Unlike CJ, his time will come sooner than later.
allen aoki - February 3, 2012
I agree.
My biggest concern is that he doesn’t seem to be a high basketball IQ kind of guy. Forces up bad shots, looks for his own shot before looking to pass, turns the ball over, etc. But his physical abilities are there, and the fact that he’s willing to play tough D to get his minutes is a very promising sign.
JazzHype - February 3, 2012
for what it is worth...
I see Burks as a combo-guard sixth-man-of-the-year-type for the Jazz in the future. I see Hayward as a better 2 than 3, and as more of a starter than burks, because he is more well-rounded.
IMO, we need to pick up a young PG & a young SF, possibly as lotto picks this year to round out the future version of the Jazz. From what I have seen, it seems to be a down year for PG draft prospects though.
I like Kabongo’s upside, but fear his downside, & he may not enter the draft in any case; Teague is a lot like his brother in Atlanta, meaning he is more of a combo-guard than a true PG; I haven’t watched Marshall, because I hate North Carolina, so I don’t know what to say about him; other than those guys who does anyone think wouldn’t be too much of a reach in the late lottery?
Waxmaster - February 3, 2012
Things change so fast... the tourney will most likely bring out at least one contender.
Kemba and Jimmer both got bumped way up after their tournament performances. Seems like it happens about every other year. So maybe this will be the year it doesn’t, who knows…
JazzHype - February 3, 2012
we'll see how this guy finishes out the season
but scott machado seems like a pg the jazz would be interested in. But he looks like a late first rounder – early second rounder
TBKIII - February 3, 2012
Definitely
There have been moments where he doesn’t seem to get it. That’s why I think it’s fine that Raja and CJ get more burn than he does this year. They’ve proved their worth. And really, if he can’t overtake them in the rotation then it’s a sign that he’s not ready yet.
But you’re right, he’s got abilities no one has on the Jazz, he’s confident and he’s exciting to watch, which is why, understandably, fans want him on the court as much as possible. He’ll have his time, but it’s not now.
allen aoki - February 3, 2012
I think he's the most exciting player on the team right now.
Even more exciting than Evans, especially with Watson out.
JazzHype - February 3, 2012
The most interesting thing
in the future of the Jazz will be how they go about developing a star to lead this team. We all hope Favors will be that guy but we don’t know if he has the drive to be that guy. Hayward and Kanter will be great players and teamates but not guys who can take games over. Burks has the potential but much like Favors we won’t know for 2-3 years. Add in two more lotto picks and you have quite the pickle. The Jazz can’t pay all these draft picks to stay around. It seems at some point they will need to package some of these guys and get someone in the draft or in the league who can be a #1 guy. Its a bit far away but something I keep running through my mind. KOC will have some big decisions to make.
jusorenson - February 3, 2012
We all keep on talking about making Burks our pg of the future
But what about G-Time? He has shown great court vision, passing, and IQ. Then we would have burks as our 2 of the future and only need to find a 3 which this next draft is packed full of.
thatdoolinkid - February 3, 2012 via mobile
I honestly think a Burks/Hayward backcourt could become very, very good
Burks will guard the PG, bring the ball up, and initiate sets that the PG begins with a pass to the wing.
Hayward guards the SG and actually becomes the primary playmaker.
Yucca Man - February 3, 2012
I'm reminded of Amar's Zero-sum game post back during the draft
thatdoolinkid - February 3, 2012 via mobile
Found it
http://mobile.slcdunk.com/2011/5/30/2198118/the-3-pick-and-the-12-pick-are-not-a-zero-sum-point-guard-game
thatdoolinkid - February 3, 2012 via mobile
I'm not that sure that Hayward/Burks would really fit the 2-ball handler mold.
Burks doesn’t pass nearly as much or as well as I thought he would, to this point. Burks has shown to mostly be a slasher/scorer so far. I think he has better court vision than a few people on here give him credit for, but I don’t think he’s using it very often. Right now, if they played together, I think Burks would mostly be a scorer, not a facilitator.
JazzHype - February 3, 2012
i think the key is "right now"
i think most are looking forward to the future maybe 2-3 years from now with hayward and burks in the backcourt when burks has matured a little
gubihero - February 3, 2012
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