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The Difference Between a Fan and a Player - The Downbeat - # 676

Note: Sorry for the late DB. I have sick kids, which meant I spent the morning doing the bane of every teacher's existence: preparing Last-second Emergency Sub Plans. Ugh.

I'm bummed the Jazz lost last night. At the same time, I loved the game.

I loved the fast pace in the first half. I loved how the subs were able to push it to a 10-point lead in the early 2nd quarter. I loved the grind and spit-fight between the two teams in the second half. I loved that the Clips obviously came out pissed off at being embarrassed in the last game—and I loved that the Jazz stuck it right back at them. I loved watching two superstars go crazy against us (that would be the Clips). I loved watching 8 guys giving everything they had on the other side (that would be us—sorry Josh Howard, you can't be included).

And do you know what else I loved? That our guys weren't calling it a "moral victory" or anything of the sort. Here's CJ:

Cjtwitter_medium

And a CJ quote from (via SLTrib.com)

I don’t take anything from this. It’s a loss. I felt like it is a game we should have won. We had a chance to win. That beginning of that third quarter really hurt us. We missed a bunch of easy shots and a lot of jump shots. And then towards the end we had chances. They made big shots, and we had a couple we didn’t convert.

I feel like Marilla Cuthbert discovering Anne Shirley's been recommended to take a test to attend college. Reading this stuff from CJ Miles, watching him become a really good player and showing some pretty nice leadership, I'm left staring gape-eyed and crying out in pride: "Really? Our CJ?"

I think most fans look at a loss last night, not necessarily as a "moral victory", but still differently than a player: with an eye looking for good things. Afterall, that's what we care about: whether our team is consistently awesome or on the right path to getting there. And here's what looked like it's on the right path:

  1. Al's offense in the first half was as good as I've seen him. Ever. His defensive rotations were still slow, but not as bad as last week. The ankle looks to be getting better.
  2. Favors went mano-mano with Blake and was pretty awesome. How awesome? Even Locke complimented him.
  3. Kanter + Favors looked great—defensively and offensively
  4. CJ is playing like the guy we always hoped he could be
  5. Hayward is playing aggressive, looking to score, backing down to nobody, and becoming a demon on D. He's guarded SF's, SG's, and last night a PG that was killing us—weaving in and out and doing anything he wanted. How much more of this until we say that defensively, he's nudging the AK-Zone—able to guard the best player every night regardless of position? He'll never be a pure AK-clone because I don't see him guarding centers or power forwards, but still.
Here's Hayward guarding Chris Paul (remember, Paul's been dribbling in and out and generally doing whatever he wans all game). Paul scores, but it wasn't Hayward's fault. He just hit a tough shot.


Of course, it wasn't all sunny roses:

  1. PF Terminator, where have you gone? By my count, that's four straight games missing him. Let's hope we get the real Paul Millsap back soon.
  2. Earl with the sprain ... I'm terrified at the consequences if he's out long-term.
  3. Howard was garbage.
  4. Tinsley played 7 minutes at SG.
  5. Jeremy evans played exactly 1 second. Which was about 5 seconds more than Alec Burks.
  6. From KFAN, via Moni's blog: Hayward's T (first in his life) wasn't ideal: "It wasn’t even a good one. I didn’t get to yell at the ref or anything."

Something called the "Lob City Ledger" was impressed with the Jazz. After giving grades to their Clippers heroes (Paul, Griffin, and Mo of course), they decided to hand out a grade to the Jazz:

Lobcity_medium

Clips Nation had this to say about the Jazz:

Give a lot of credit to Utah in this one. Those boys came to play, and never gave up for a second. The Clippers opened the game with an alley-oop from Paul to Griffin, and followed that up with a series of big time finishes at the rim. But the Jazz continuously had an answer, looking to get out and run from the outset, putting a great deal of pressure on the Clippers. While Paul Millsap struggled tonight, Al Jefferson was terrific, torching the Clipper bigs with 18 points on 9/11 shooting in the first half. Throughout the entire game, the Jazz looked to push, allowing them to get transition points and trips to the free throw line. In addition, getting the ball across half court allowed them to initiate their offense early in the shot clock, assuring quality possession after quality possession. A lot of credit is owed to Coach Tyrone Corbin. He has done an excellent job of getting his team to execute what looks a whole lot like Jerry Sloan's old offense, without a great passing point guard. We saw some really nifty sets tonight, with Utah running diversionary double cuts pulling in the entire Clipper defense, followed by a third cut leading to an easy layup. They also executed great simple back cuts for easy points as well. Really great stuff, and maximum effort for 48 minutes as well.

Poll:

Oh, and another odd Jazz dream I had after the jump:

Star-divide

I am posting this with full understanding of how this can be used to psychoanalyze my deeply-rooted issues and subconscious prejudices:

Jazz are playing Orlando. Dwight is destroying Al, going for 40 points in the first half. The Jazz counter by giving Al 25 shots in the first half. It's halftime, and Locke is hosting Root Sports halftime show.

Locke speaks in a subdued, almost reverent voice:

"Today, we have a real treat. The Jazz coaching staff has agreed to share its method to forming in-game-strategy: BEHOLD, THE SEVENTY-SIXONATOR!"

Seventy-six red smiley faced balloons rise. Lock takes a pin and pops one. All the others giggle like a Chuzzle being tickled. A screen rises from the remains of the popped balloon.

Locke explains a stunning principle to winning NBA games:

"The scores are fake. Nobody remembers who made what baskets, so the scores are just made up as the game progresses. What really wins games is a principle called Positional Antecedence. (actual jargon from the dream).

"Basketball games work like Presidential elections. It doesn't matter how many people vote for each guy, it matters how many states get the majority vote for each guy (I know it's more complicated than that—but my subconscious doesn't, I suppose.)

"Same with basketball games. Total points don't matter—what matters is having the Antecedenal Primacy (actual dream jargon) of the majority of positions. You calculate who scored more from the starting C—that team gets one point. Same with PF, SF, and so forth. Add up the totals, and you have a winner. If it's close (say 5-4), then the fake score will be close. Otherwise the fake score will be a blowout.

"That's why the Jazz have to let Al shoot every shot if his counterpart is ripping his defense to shreds—the Jazz will not concede Antecedenal Primacy at the center spot without a fight."

In comes the Mailman, dressed like John Wayne:

"But if Dwight's scoring all their points, shouldn't the Jazz have everyone else score 15 apiece and get the Antequish Primate at every other spot? They'd win that way."

Locke's eyes go red, and he shouts: "FOOL! FOOL! YOU FOOLS!"

Then the screen ate Locke alive. He didn't scream. He said "I am the Walrus!"

Take from that what you will.

Poll
Jazz have gone only 2-3 during the past 5 games. What development has most helped you stay excited about our team?
Aggressive Hayward
72 votes
Al's ankle getting better
3 votes
Favors playing like he ought against Griffin
36 votes
Smart CJ
37 votes
Kanter + Favorse = great interior D
95 votes
Other (explain in the comments)
5 votes

248 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  52 comments

Comments

your dream

i what i can’t speechless

I wasn't able to pay close attention to the second half

Can someone explain to me why Tinsley was playing the 2? I know Devin and Earl were injured, but Tinsley was on the court with Harris and it would seem to make more sense to play Devin at the 2 and Tinsley at the 1?

It made no sense to me
I thought it was a big mistake

Ty got sucked into playing two point guards because they have two point guards out there most of the game. Putting a bigger body on Paul should have been the plan from the jump. Hopefully Ty saw how much more effective it was and will do that from now on. Let Chauncy or Mo play against Devin, and leave length on Paul.

It completely killed us.

Harris was gassed by the last 3 minutes of the game. Totally mismanaged. He should of only played Tinsley and put Harris in for the last 4 minutes.

He also played Howard much longer than he should have. Those are my only gripes with Ty’s coaching lastnight.

Other:

Big al passing a lot more often. part of his game he needed to develop and it looks like its coming together.

Harris freakin' sucks right now(to be blunt).

He got burned all night by CP3 to the point that Ty had to put Gordo on CP3! What probably irks me most though is knowing Harris is far more capable than this. Far more.

He Kept Gambling

He needs to take some lessons from Raja and Hayward on staying in front of his man and just forcing him to take a difficult shot. He kept trying to steal the ball from him and got burned every time. Gordon was much more effective on CP3 because he just played the percentages.

Oh my lord on the dream.

It was awesome.
I’m really bummed that polls don’t show up in the app though.

poll

It’s not on there, but these past games what has me excited the most is seeing Kanter, and Favors taking mid range jump shots. They have been Money from the line as well.

Favorite part of last nights game was seeing Favors face up his defender, take a jab step to the right, got his man to commit, and he blew past him to the left for an easy score at the rim.

Our rook, and 2nd tear big have a lot of potential, and we are seeing glimpses of it every game!

*year not tear
Favors' D on Griffin in the 2nd quarter was a game changer.

I was also impressed by his improvement in the post on offense. He still has a long way to go, but he’s starting to show flashes of what he can become.

2. Hayward got owned on that play, he didn't let CP dribble wherever he wanted,

but he gave the hottest player on the floor 5 feet to shoot. I do love his defensive effort though. Preferred him on CP at that point than anyone else. Maybe Burks should have gotten a run out.

5. Love smart CJ. Love the potential this team has. Love Enes and Favors. BUT, I can’t help but recognize that the things that seem to be some of our best assets (currently our best, not in the future with improved Favors and Kanter) are assets we would have had before the D-will trade. Al, Sap, OG, CJ, Earl… This team with D-will buying in instead of being so down on everything would be something to behold.

This is, sadly, an ongoing theme lately
Maybe Burks should have gotten a run out.
Yea, I guess if something has its own hashtag...
I didn't think it was very good D either. Respected the drive too much and didn't respect the shot enough.
that one play was not his best moment

but if you rewatch the game you will see that he guarded him on a number of possessions and forced tougher shots consistently.

I wasn't passing judgment on anything other than that one video.
Fun DB

Love seeing CJ literally grow into a veteran before our eyes.

High praise from Clips Nation. That’s pretty awesome.

Clips Nation

Clips Nation has some classy fans, I really like that.

Also I’m not too sold on all the Millsap love. He has been an amazing player a lot and bailed us out a lot but has also really screwed up a lot. It’s not completely Sap’s fault (but still mostly) because it’s team defense but Griffin’s first 5 bucket dunks?!? Seriously! There were also a few other play where Sap put absolutely no effort in on D. I don’t think that’s something you can let a leader get away with and not be benched. Especially since it seemed Erix BurX got benched for bad shot selection. I think Ty should have proved another point with Paul last night. Sap has been pretty mediocre the last 4 games.

Clipper fans have to be humble, just look at their history
Was at the game last night.

My brother BShums and I were baffled that Tinsley stayed in so long while Burks languished on the bench. I like when Ty plays Harris and Watson at the same time…but without Watson, there’s no point. Put in a shooting guard!

Also, every time I go to a game I realize why I don’t go to more games. Seats suck, tickets are expensive, and fans are loud-mouthed and stupid. You people are way better to watch a game with (even when I’m not in the game thread).

lots of good stuff from Ty

but lots of question marks too. I guess that can be said with most coaches. Even the Great Jerry Sloan got a ton of flack.

I think Ty would benefit from mixing and matching starters and bench players a bit more. Seems like there is a lot of fully 2nd string units out there without starters. Was helpful a few weeks ago when starters were off, but now there seems to be something lacking. Specifically interior offense, Favors showing some promise but not as good yet as Al of Sap. Kanter getting blocked 3 times a night.

Paul Millsap

I don’t quite understand how Millsap has been missing in the last 4 games. Millsap’s last 4 games have been 14pts/7rebs, 19pts/15rebs, 6pts/14rebs and 20pts/7rebs. Giving him an average of about 15pts and 10rebs , 1.25 steals and 1 blk over the last 4 games.

For me, it has to do with defense.

I feel like he’s been getting eaten alive on defense. Like I posted earlier, it isn’t completely his fault but it is mostly his fault. BG had 31pts/14rbds and his first five buckets of the game were dunks! LMA went something like 6 of 7 until we switched Favors and Kanter onto him. DeMarcus Cousins played ok but Tyreke Evans destroyed us in the paint. Lamar Odom had a pretty big game on Millsap. Barngani scored 25. It seems like Sap has started to regress to where he was last year and only playing on one end of the floor. I personally think that cannot fly for a guy who is supposed to be our leader.

He has always struggled defending bigger guys.

This year, he’s done a better job, whether it’s making guys work on the defensive end so they have less energy on offense, holding his own a little better defensively, or simply outperforming his opponent. It seems he’s come back to earth on this a little bit recently. I love Millsap, but the difference between him and Favors defensively is huge. Favors just doesn’t have the offensive game that Millsap has developed over the years.

The dunks were there because

Harris was (not literally but almost) being eaten alive by CP3’s penetration. Millsap steps out to cut off the driving lane (remember and CP3 finds the now open Griffin. The alternative is to let CP3 get to the basket. It’s a lose/lose situation but it starts with CP3. That’s why he’s the best PG in the league. Sorry D-Will.

I still don't understand what the rules are for bad shots on the Jazz

As far as I can tell they are:

If CJ, or Burks take a questionable shot > 2 times in a stint on the floor they are benched

If Josh Howard, Raja take a questionable shot it does not affect their status.

I have liked Howard pre-injury, but last night he was taking the worst shots, and playing really poorly, yet he still got a huge chunk of minutes.

That and the 2 point guard thin were really bad moves.

i don't know, howard didn't play down the stretch at all last night

in fact that was part of the whole tinsley harris thing i didn’t understand. also why weren’t we playing 1 of our 3 healthy shooting guards at the 2, who knows

Howard had some of the worst shot selection last night I have ever seen in any player on any team.

Ever.

Go watch John Starks in the 1994 Finals then.
Great downbeat

2. I think I take losses like that harder than I should. I was very urniated off after the Blake Flop and all of the missed FTs. But it sets in with me after a while and I can look at it more like I should.

3. I don’t think Paul has been missing these last 4 games as much as he just hasn’t shot well. The thing I love about our guys is that they work to try to find ways to help the team win. If Millsap isn’t shooting great he usually rebounds well or makes some defensive plays. I think Millsap has done a great job of finding ways to help the team while his shot isn’t falling and that is why he is so good. Anyone that has ever played knows that you aren’t always going to shoot it well, but you need to find other ways to help. Now last night Blake dunked on his head over and over again, yet there was no quit in Millsap and he was ready to hit that 3 to give us a chance.

5. I love the way Hayward is playing.

As for your dream, man that is some crazy stuff. I never remember that many details of my dreams, but I do always remember weird things when I wake up that make no sense, but seemed perfectly logical at the time. Like the other night I had a dream that because Bell wasn’t playing that Hornacek started at SG for us. He was in the mountain Jazz uniform out playing with Favors and Hayward in their normal uniforms and it made perfect sense to me. But that is as much as I can remember. I can’t remember who we were playing and if we were winning or anything else.

No moral victories, no

But I’m not ticked about last night (other than our abysmal FT shooting) For one, Paul got unusually hot handed at the end. 2- they got a lot of freak O rebounds and 2nd chance pts and 3- they are a raelly good team- 2nd in the West, right?

I can no longer complain about Al. He’s playing much better within the offense (smarter shots, etc), his passing has made leaps and his D has improved. And- this is important- he’s not trying to be a superstar or carry the team. I can’t complain about Al.

Incidentely, I had a Jazz dream recently. In it, Hayward made 2 monster dunks. Then he was about to dunk it again but instead threw it across the court to Al who dunked it. It was pretty hazy- couldn’t tell if it was a game, a scrimmage or just practice. Weird.

Really Yucca Man?

Anne of Green gables is your go to analogy? Seriously?

Ps, if anyone has a picture of Coach Sloan facepalming, I’m going to need a copy of that for the next time Yucca Man pulls out an Anne of Green Gables analogy.

Thanks.

Sorry man

Anne of Green Gables is awesome.

+1

For the longest time, I wanted to name my first-born son Gilbert

Hello, Gil. You're looking very robust.
as fun as that game was to watch

It was so frustrating. Why cant the jazz ever create matchup problems? I feel like we think we have to play into everyone elses schemes. The reason they go three pgs is bc they have three solid pgs. That doesnt mean throw harris and tinsley at them. I appreciate the idea but when it becomes obvious its not working, go back to what was. Hayward was dominating mo will on both ends. Dont fix what’s not broken. And harris just kills us. His d is awful, and he’s useless on offense. He has no confidence which allows the d to sag off way more than they should.

Have Harris and Tinsley played or practiced at all together?

I’m guessing very little at best. Why put out a grouping like that in a tight game? Seems like it plays right into the Clippers’ hands.

I feel that, for me at least, last night confirmed that we are currently on the second tier of playoff teams in the west, right there with portland, denver, san antonio, lakers and a couple more

i know we still need to prove ourselves on the road, but as of now, i think the team is light years ahead of what we all expected from them for this season

Definitely better than expected.

I think we’re all holding our breath right now, hoping we get through this next stretch reasonably well.

Know what I love about this Jazz team right now?

They. Never. Give. Up.
Down 4 with under 30 seconds to go? Who cares! GRIND!

Know what else I love?
They HATE to lose. Don’t discount that, ever.

so this was an interesting article about how the jazz players are going to change their ft woes

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700220947/Utah-Jazz-notebook-Missed-foul-shots-come-with-penalties.html

what i thought was most interesting is that horny started this with favors

favors seems to be doing a lot better

Favors FT% was close to .500

Now it’s just shy of 70%. He’s much improved.

The thing with Favors is his form is really nice (goes for his jumper too). His release was just inconsistent—as was the arc. But a lot of the fundamentals are there.

Can't leave out the "Best fans in the NBA" part.

Since Jazz fans aren’t intelligent, aren’t classy, aren’t loyal, and aren’t thought of highly around the league according to some around here. Josh Howard and Earl Watson sure don’t seem to think so.

I kind of roll my eyes when people say fans are a reason Utah can't get FA's

And I think it’s a myth that we can’t get FA’s anyway. Harder, than the Lakers? Of course.

But during all those years Deron tried to persuade guys to come here the team was over the cap. THAT was most likely why the team couldn’t add talent via free agency.

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