Sixers @ Jazz 3-20-96 Jerry Stackhouse Fights Jeff Hornecek (via RareAir310)
This isn't the only time Stack has fought with a member of the Jazz. He and Kirk Snyder got into it after a Jazz loss in Dallas back in 2005. Stackhouse has a rep of getting into altercations with other teams as well.
Sounds like Andy (Hayward) will be heading back to Utah this weekend to start working out. CJ said the first part of September is when he would be back as well. I imagine that everyone else will be filing back in to town as well shortly. We're getting closer.
Deron Williams may very well end up leaving in a couple of years, but not for any of the reasons listed by this Dime post. Here's a list of the reasons given and my counter argument.
Deron is upset with the situation in Utah. While Deron has been vocal about some of his friends being traded/not signed, mentioning that he signed a three-year deal for a reason, and talking about the Jazz not doing anything, he's come around on those issues. His comments about Dee Brown and Ronnie Brewer were made shortly after those decisions and could be considered being in the heat of the moment. He's also stated that he's very excited with the recent additions in Jefferson, Hayward, and Bell and thinks that this team could be better than last season's team.
The Jazz still have no title since he re-signed. Well, 28 other teams have no title in the same time period. They've also been taken out by the Lakers three straight times, the two-time champions and one-time runner-up. ]
Losing Korver, Boozer, and Brewer has taken his heart out of it. - So he's saying that Deron won't have the same fire he's had before because those three aren't here anymore? That couldn't be further from the truth. His statement to Big Al that he's going to make him an All-star and the talk about the Jazz being better this year wipes out this argument.
When Deron played in the All-star game in Dallas, it was the happiest he's looked in two years. - Come on, he would have been happy to be playing the All-star game in Yellowknife, Canada. He had just been snubbed for 2-3 years. Being in Dallas was icing on the cake.
Dallas has substantial cap room in 2012 - Guess who else has cap room in 2012? Utah. Not that it matters anymore, but guess who can give him the most money? Utah. Guess who might not have cap room in 2012 because your owner is Mark Cuban?
He'll have a better supporting cast in Dallas - The Jazz have Al Jefferson, Paul Millsap, Raja Bell, and Gordon Hayward on the books for 2012-13. The Mavs have Dirk, Shawn Marion, Brendan Haywood, Roddy, and Dominque Jones. The average age of those first three will be about 33. Even if the ages were the same, is that a lineup that would be enough to pull Deron to Dallas?
Second, we have no idea what teams/contracts will look like after the new CBA.
Overall, this looks like an article that some wrote because 1., Deron could be a FA in 2012, and 2., made the Dallas connection.
The biggest factor to me why this wouldn't happen would be that Dallas will be over whatever the cap is in 2012 with Cuban doling out huge contracts trying to build a winner. If he's going to start dumping salary to get under the cap then they're not going to have much of a team to go to.
HoopsHype is reporting that free agent Francicso Elson is leaning towards signing with the Jazz,
If you're like me, I'm sure you said, "Fransicwho?" He's a journeyman right now with unimpressive numbers for a big man. He's a 34-year old 7-footer who doesn't score much nor blocks many shots.
There will be rumors like this that float around, but if they were to sign him, wouldn't that have an impact on Fesenko and Jeremy Evans?
Open-ended Wednesday poll... Who is the team's most-improved for next season?
He wasn’t on the team last year, but I think the improvements in his game could be huge; now that he has Williams as a point guard and Kirilenko as a pure amazing do it all dude. I hope to see truly great things from him this year.
Also, I think that Williams assist numbers will improve a lot over this season. If smart CJ shows up, Andy takes the smart shots we saw from summer league, Raja continues to drain 3’s, and the Millsap/Jefferson duo dominate the paint, Williams could reach 13 or 14 average assists per game.
Of course the article is ludicrous. One of the dangers of joining the basketball coverage industrial complex is that you wind up publishing patently absurd and far-fetched ideas just to fill space during the slow news cycles of summer. If it wasn’t so hard for people to fill in news in the summer, BBJ wouldn’t have brought the article to our attention in the first place.
8. I am a little worried about it, but what it all boils down to is having a chance to compete and money. The Jazz will have money to throw him a max deal and is there a more consistent team in the NBA then the Jazz? I don’t think he is upset in Utah. You play for a HOF coach and your team is in the Playoffs. How can it get better? Obviously a title gets better but there has been 8 Champs since ’91! There are a lot of teams that can make the same argument.
4. Yeah when I read this I wasn’t too excited. He wouldn’t give us anything special, but I like the fact that a free agent has Utah on the top of his list.
5. Most improved….. going with CJ. I think he becomes consistent this year.
CJ Miles
I think he will show up on top og his game a lot more often this year. His stats last year were 9.9, 2.7, 1.7. If he can consistently add two to each of those stats (12, 5, 4), I’d be satisfied.
My second place vote goes to AK. If healthy and playing some good time at PF, I see him returning to near all star play.
2. This offseason has been brutally slow. I can’t belive we’re still a month away from training camp.
8. Wow. And people complain about the stuff I write? At least I’m just some dude ranting at 1:00 a.m. to wind down from spending all day teaching 10-year-olds – not a paid journalist.
The truth is that the Jazz have one of the most talented rosters (looking at dudes 1-9) in the league. The truth is pre-25/pre-Jazz Al >> pre-25/pre-Jazz Boozer – so the likelihood that Al ends up better is very, very high. The truth is Hayward has potential to contribute much more than Korver did. The truth is Raja’s attitude is exactly what the Jazz need. The truth is after Deron threw his little fit after the Ronnie B. trade he developed greater chemistry and confidence in Wesley than he had in Ronnie, and that will probably happen again with Raja. The truth is the Jazz roster is currently put together better and makes more sense than it did with Boozer. The truth is only health and chemistry can keep this Jazz team from being one of the top-5 teams in the league.
Yeah, Deron will be a FA in 2012. But if this team plays up to its potential, I don’t see him going anywhere.
4. I would like to announce that I’m currently a free agent and the Utah Jazz is the team I’m leaning toward signing with.
5. Most improved: Millsap will be the most likely to be in the running for the award (because his stats will probably have a big jump this year). But CJ and Al are mostly likely to actually improve as players. Millsap’s been borderline All-Star solid for the past two years (just not the touches and minutes to turn his play into the stats). But CJ and Al are most likely to be much, much better than previously.
I don't know if that guy with dimemag is a journalist.
I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I think another piece he put out today was about how the Hawks should trade Jamal Crawford and replace him with Allen Iverson, so his NBA knowledge credibility is starting off on the wrong foot.
You could tell from the article and the overwhelming amount of generalities he used that this guy is far from an expert. Also, the article had a feel to it that suggested this guy has Dallas ties. A strong bias will make you say stupid things on occasion…
He's a college kid from Florida who is an intern this semester @Dimemag
He’s also a melo fan and dumb. He’s young and immature and criticism = ‘hating’ with him.
I tweeted him, and replied to him in that article and in others he wrote. He also thinks the Hawks need to get rid of Crawford and get Allen Iverson, and play Iverson 30 mpg.
All I know is Stackhouse is a punk and Horny just laughed off his weak shit, like it didn’t any damage to him at all….i’d like to see Malone take on Stackhouse, put him in his place.
grabbed Stackhouse very calmly and kept him from doing anything else. I can imagine the conversation…
Malone: Yo, Stack, back up man. Im the 2nd best player in the league right now. Lay off or I’ll show you what a real punch looks like.
Stackhouse: Im…s..s..s..sorry, Mr. Malone, sir. It wont happen again.
Here’s the scary part, I don’t care if he leaves. I … trust KOC. There I said it. I was on the fence but after securing Big Al and Raja and in doing so completely revamping the roster I have no choice. Here’s the thing about Utah’s system, “It’s like novocaine. Just give it time, always works” That’s borrowed from Remember the Titans. Remember when we drafted Eric Maynor? He would have filled in great for Deron. There will be similar players who come along who will get to look like all-stars because they play in Utah’s system. Also, if we don’t have Deron, then we have a huge pile of cash to work with. NBA players like huge piles of cash. The system is what works. The parts are interchangeable.
I have considered your stance often the last couple weeks. How much is the Jazz system beneficial to players and how much is it just because we have good players?
Amar and I debated about this very topic for like 3 days on twitter. There are a couple guys here and there, but it is hard to definitely prove one way or another that guys “get better” by playing with the Jazz. Al Jefferson and Carlos Boozer are going to play huge roles in evidence supporting or opposing the view that the Jazz system is what makes the team good.
but definitely not the case with the PG position. The system requires a true, talented PG to run and facilitate the offense. Remember the years between losing Stockton and drafting Williams? The team was practically in disarray without at true PG. Mo Williams was the closest we got in those years and even he couldn’t run the system nearly as efficiently as DWill can.
The Jazz can afford to lose big men and wing players because their success is partially dependent upon the system, but nobody can afford to lose the best PG in the league.
I would argue that it’s not the system that improves the player. It’s up to the players themselves to learn and execute the system and if they do that successfully they will be rewarded with improved play, given that they have the talent. But, you can’t just plug any player into Jerry Sloan’s team and expect them to be the next DWill. There are plenty of players who have come through the Jazz organization and just couldn’t cut it.
1. I remember that game vividly because my mom practically threw the TV out the window when Hornacek was ejected. She still talks about it whenever refs eject a player who wasn’t instigating (passionate, passionate Jazz fan)
8. Everyone should be concerned about the chance that DWill could leave, if we weren’t concerned then we wouldn’t be fans. But it’s definitely NOT as cut and dry as that guy makes it seem in that article. It’s also on the front page of ESPN now, can’t believe he’s getting that much attention for mere speculation.
4. If Elson is an upgrade over Fes, I say take him. He obviously has more experience and could be a good role player if he learns the system. I don’t think it would effect Evans’ signing with the team, though.
5. I’m going to put my vote in for Millsap, just because he’s positioned to get the starting PF role and we all saw how his numbers improved two years ago when he was a starter.
when i read this part: “When Deron played in the All-star game in Dallas, it was the happiest he’s looked in two years.” Good bet that the author has seen three Jazz games in the past four years, and they were all Playoffs losses or something.
4. i asked my sister (spurs fan) about elson. all she could tell me was “from the netherlands, didn’t play much.”
1. Just watched that Stackhouse Hornaceck brawl. I remember that. Was Stack a rookie? Anyways what a prick. Of all the people to pick a fight with and your going with Horny? That alone tells you all you need to know about how much of a prick he is.
Jerry Stackhouse ladies and gentleman (via BDL),
Sounds like Andy (Hayward) will be heading back to Utah this weekend to start working out. CJ said the first part of September is when he would be back as well. I imagine that everyone else will be filing back in to town as well shortly. We're getting closer.
Deron Williams may very well end up leaving in a couple of years, but not for any of the reasons listed by this Dime post. Here's a list of the reasons given and my counter argument.
HoopsHype is reporting that free agent Francicso Elson is leaning towards signing with the Jazz,
Open-ended Wednesday poll... Who is the team's most-improved for next season?
Most Improved
Paul Millsap
phrizzo - September 1, 2010
Can I pick Al Jefferson?
He wasn’t on the team last year, but I think the improvements in his game could be huge; now that he has Williams as a point guard and Kirilenko as a pure amazing do it all dude. I hope to see truly great things from him this year.
Also, I think that Williams assist numbers will improve a lot over this season. If smart CJ shows up, Andy takes the smart shots we saw from summer league, Raja continues to drain 3’s, and the Millsap/Jefferson duo dominate the paint, Williams could reach 13 or 14 average assists per game.
JD23UT - September 1, 2010
#8
Of course the article is ludicrous. One of the dangers of joining the basketball coverage industrial complex is that you wind up publishing patently absurd and far-fetched ideas just to fill space during the slow news cycles of summer. If it wasn’t so hard for people to fill in news in the summer, BBJ wouldn’t have brought the article to our attention in the first place.
El Aguacil - September 1, 2010
8. I am a little worried about it, but what it all boils down to is having a chance to compete and money. The Jazz will have money to throw him a max deal and is there a more consistent team in the NBA then the Jazz? I don’t think he is upset in Utah. You play for a HOF coach and your team is in the Playoffs. How can it get better? Obviously a title gets better but there has been 8 Champs since ’91! There are a lot of teams that can make the same argument.
4. Yeah when I read this I wasn’t too excited. He wouldn’t give us anything special, but I like the fact that a free agent has Utah on the top of his list.
5. Most improved….. going with CJ. I think he becomes consistent this year.
P_Dizzle - September 1, 2010
...
Actually, only 8 champs since ’79.
Theagreement - September 1, 2010
yeah
i was 1 off. should have been 7 since ‘91 and 8 since ’79-’80
LA
Boston
SA
Miami
Detroit
Chicago
Houston
Philadelphia
P_Dizzle - September 1, 2010
My vote is for
CJ Miles
I think he will show up on top og his game a lot more often this year. His stats last year were 9.9, 2.7, 1.7. If he can consistently add two to each of those stats (12, 5, 4), I’d be satisfied.
My second place vote goes to AK. If healthy and playing some good time at PF, I see him returning to near all star play.
ut2006 - September 1, 2010
1. Never liked Stackhouse
2. This offseason has been brutally slow. I can’t belive we’re still a month away from training camp.
8. Wow. And people complain about the stuff I write? At least I’m just some dude ranting at 1:00 a.m. to wind down from spending all day teaching 10-year-olds – not a paid journalist.
The truth is that the Jazz have one of the most talented rosters (looking at dudes 1-9) in the league. The truth is pre-25/pre-Jazz Al >> pre-25/pre-Jazz Boozer – so the likelihood that Al ends up better is very, very high. The truth is Hayward has potential to contribute much more than Korver did. The truth is Raja’s attitude is exactly what the Jazz need. The truth is after Deron threw his little fit after the Ronnie B. trade he developed greater chemistry and confidence in Wesley than he had in Ronnie, and that will probably happen again with Raja. The truth is the Jazz roster is currently put together better and makes more sense than it did with Boozer. The truth is only health and chemistry can keep this Jazz team from being one of the top-5 teams in the league.
Yeah, Deron will be a FA in 2012. But if this team plays up to its potential, I don’t see him going anywhere.
4. I would like to announce that I’m currently a free agent and the Utah Jazz is the team I’m leaning toward signing with.
5. Most improved: Millsap will be the most likely to be in the running for the award (because his stats will probably have a big jump this year). But CJ and Al are mostly likely to actually improve as players. Millsap’s been borderline All-Star solid for the past two years (just not the touches and minutes to turn his play into the stats). But CJ and Al are most likely to be much, much better than previously.
Yucca Man - September 1, 2010
I don't know if that guy with dimemag is a journalist.
I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I think another piece he put out today was about how the Hawks should trade Jamal Crawford and replace him with Allen Iverson, so his NBA knowledge credibility is starting off on the wrong foot.
clarkpojo - September 1, 2010
4. I too would like to announce that I am a free agent and am leaning toward the Jazz
Still kinda want us to sign Boom Tho.
5. #whatupdoe
TazzJazzFan - September 1, 2010
According to Boom Tho's twitter he is in Korea, I too would like to see what he could for the Jazz though.
jbuxxy - September 1, 2010
Agreed.
You could tell from the article and the overwhelming amount of generalities he used that this guy is far from an expert. Also, the article had a feel to it that suggested this guy has Dallas ties. A strong bias will make you say stupid things on occasion…
Theagreement - September 1, 2010
He's a college kid from Florida who is an intern this semester @Dimemag
He’s also a melo fan and dumb. He’s young and immature and criticism = ‘hating’ with him.
I tweeted him, and replied to him in that article and in others he wrote. He also thinks the Hawks need to get rid of Crawford and get Allen Iverson, and play Iverson 30 mpg.
So, there you have it.
AllThatJazzBasketball - September 2, 2010
How did Hornacek get ejected?
He gets his head taken off chocked and has some haymakers thrown at him and he got tossed? I hate Stackhouse.
BobbyD31 - September 1, 2010
I don't know..
All I know is Stackhouse is a punk and Horny just laughed off his weak shit, like it didn’t any damage to him at all….i’d like to see Malone take on Stackhouse, put him in his place.
utahmanami - September 1, 2010
I love how Malone
grabbed Stackhouse very calmly and kept him from doing anything else. I can imagine the conversation…
Malone: Yo, Stack, back up man. Im the 2nd best player in the league right now. Lay off or I’ll show you what a real punch looks like.
Stackhouse: Im…s..s..s..sorry, Mr. Malone, sir. It wont happen again.
wheatie_87 - September 2, 2010
this makes sense
since the next time stackhouse tried going after a jazz player (snyder) was after malone retired.
moni - September 2, 2010
Exactomundo
wheatie_87 - September 3, 2010
Not worried about D-Will leaving at all.
Here’s the scary part, I don’t care if he leaves. I … trust KOC. There I said it. I was on the fence but after securing Big Al and Raja and in doing so completely revamping the roster I have no choice. Here’s the thing about Utah’s system, “It’s like novocaine. Just give it time, always works” That’s borrowed from Remember the Titans. Remember when we drafted Eric Maynor? He would have filled in great for Deron. There will be similar players who come along who will get to look like all-stars because they play in Utah’s system. Also, if we don’t have Deron, then we have a huge pile of cash to work with. NBA players like huge piles of cash. The system is what works. The parts are interchangeable.
tyrantking - September 1, 2010
I have considered your stance often the last couple weeks. How much is the Jazz system beneficial to players and how much is it just because we have good players?
Amar and I debated about this very topic for like 3 days on twitter. There are a couple guys here and there, but it is hard to definitely prove one way or another that guys “get better” by playing with the Jazz. Al Jefferson and Carlos Boozer are going to play huge roles in evidence supporting or opposing the view that the Jazz system is what makes the team good.
clarkpojo - September 1, 2010
That may be true with certain positions
but definitely not the case with the PG position. The system requires a true, talented PG to run and facilitate the offense. Remember the years between losing Stockton and drafting Williams? The team was practically in disarray without at true PG. Mo Williams was the closest we got in those years and even he couldn’t run the system nearly as efficiently as DWill can.
The Jazz can afford to lose big men and wing players because their success is partially dependent upon the system, but nobody can afford to lose the best PG in the league.
darkcoupon - September 1, 2010
also..
I would argue that it’s not the system that improves the player. It’s up to the players themselves to learn and execute the system and if they do that successfully they will be rewarded with improved play, given that they have the talent. But, you can’t just plug any player into Jerry Sloan’s team and expect them to be the next DWill. There are plenty of players who have come through the Jazz organization and just couldn’t cut it.
darkcoupon - September 1, 2010
That's where trusting KOC comes in
He’ll put the right players in. Especially if he’s got cash to make things happen because D-Will’s off the books.
tyrantking - September 1, 2010
Elson
He wouldnt be so bad considering who is available.
If you take his career at 36 minutes per game he would average 8pts 8reb 1ast 1stl 1blk. Not too bad for a career backup.
He has 30 games of playoff experience.
He is a legit 7ft Center.
I think it would be nice to have him on the roster to play here and there.
Matt_Grbac - September 1, 2010
1. I remember that game vividly because my mom practically threw the TV out the window when Hornacek was ejected. She still talks about it whenever refs eject a player who wasn’t instigating (passionate, passionate Jazz fan)
8. Everyone should be concerned about the chance that DWill could leave, if we weren’t concerned then we wouldn’t be fans. But it’s definitely NOT as cut and dry as that guy makes it seem in that article. It’s also on the front page of ESPN now, can’t believe he’s getting that much attention for mere speculation.
4. If Elson is an upgrade over Fes, I say take him. He obviously has more experience and could be a good role player if he learns the system. I don’t think it would effect Evans’ signing with the team, though.
5. I’m going to put my vote in for Millsap, just because he’s positioned to get the starting PF role and we all saw how his numbers improved two years ago when he was a starter.
darkcoupon - September 1, 2010
I wouldn't call Elson an upgrade over Fes. He doesn't foul as much as Fes. That's his only advantage.
clarkpojo - September 1, 2010
more experience, better work ethic, less upside. Seems like a toss up, really.
darkcoupon - September 1, 2010
That? was on the front page of ESPN?
Basketball John - September 1, 2010
On the front page of the NBA page under truehoop.
clarkpojo - September 1, 2010
Ah
Just saw it on first cup, http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/19594/first-cup-wednesday-122
Basketball John - September 1, 2010
love your mom.
moni - September 1, 2010
i actually laughed out loud
when i read this part: “When Deron played in the All-star game in Dallas, it was the happiest he’s looked in two years.” Good bet that the author has seen three Jazz games in the past four years, and they were all Playoffs losses or something.
4. i asked my sister (spurs fan) about elson. all she could tell me was “from the netherlands, didn’t play much.”
moni - September 1, 2010
1. Just watched that Stackhouse Hornaceck brawl. I remember that. Was Stack a rookie? Anyways what a prick. Of all the people to pick a fight with and your going with Horny? That alone tells you all you need to know about how much of a prick he is.
P_Dizzle - September 1, 2010
I remember watching it happen too. And yes, if I recall correctly, Stack was a rookie.
jbuxxy - September 2, 2010
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